What to do about bad answers

Originally posted by Sam Hobbs
Some people are going to complain that this post is not appropriate in this forum. Since it is discussing issues directly relevant to this forum only I think it is reasonable to have it here.
Well...the issues you are trying to discuss are relevant not only to the Visual C++ forum but rather to all of the forums at dev-archive.

Thus...I have moved the thread...

Originally posted by Andreas Masur
I do not say this in regard to the mentioned thread (since I did not read it), however, this is a common example. If you do not want to take the time to read it then you should not comment in this manner. I realize your comment is meant to be general but there is much, much more that is generally relevatn to this subject.

In Can parent wnd process it's child wnd messages? ( http://www.dev-archive.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=257389) I posted a comment about use of PreTranslateMessage. I hope I was clear enough in my explanation of why I considered it to be innapropriate.

Originally posted by Doctor Luz
It will be situations where a solution will be clearly bad, but please, do not close the door to a constructive discussion about the solutions when the conviction about what is bad is not so strong. This way all of us could learn.
And that is basically an even more important point in my eyes. I do not see that many bad answers lately - at least not much more than usually. Besides that...what is a bad answer? Is a bad answer something that was given by a poster in his belief that he would be correct because he did it all the time that way? I would say no. If he/she would do it on purpose it would be a different case.

However, what I saw and unfortunately still see, is the way these 'bad' answers get handled. And this is much worse in my eyes. Many times I see answers stating that a given way is wrong and the whole explanation is done with a style of writing as if the person was the born god of programming. And that cannot be the way of dealing with each other here.

I said it several times in the past years I am a member of this forums...nobody here is perfect or the god of programming. Everybody makes errors since they are human. Sometimes it seems these things get forgotten...

Originally posted by Sam Hobbs
That implied to me that you were assuming what the example said. My assumption could have been incorrect but I think I am justified in thinking that you could be assuming. It would have been different if there was a lot to read or whatever but in this case it would have been easy to look at it.
Sorry...but

I do not say this in regard to the mentioned thread...

cannot be more clearer in any words...however, this is not the topic of the thread anyway so I will leave it...

Originally posted by Sam Hobbs
A bad answer is one that:

Does not work
Says to do something that is unnecesary, especially if it can cause errors
Suggests a solution as if it is the only solution yet Microsoft does not use it and there is a solution provided by Microsoft
Is not object-oriented when there is an object-oriented solution
Does not use MFC in a MFC application when there is an easier solution that uses MFC

In the "Does not work" category there are often answers that are a guess but the person does not say that they are guessing and it takes time for the person asking for help to determine it does not work.
Yes it is wrong for a programmer to tell another programmer that something must be done in a certain way. There have been many discussions of posts that suggest use of a certain way of doing things as if it is the only correct solution yet it is not the solution the experts use.

As to the guess part, I 'guess' it's all in the way you word it. If I suggest something that I haven't actually used, but seems to be appropriate then I generally say: you might want to try looking at xxx

I don't find anything wrong with that. But then I actually do the same thing for things I am familiar with. There are many different solutions as pointed out to a given problem. And I agree with andreas that most people 'think' the solution they are offering is correct. Slamming someone for 'trying' to help seems to be counter productive. At least they are trying to help. I guess it's all about egos.

But look at it this way, if you know it's a wrong answer, then you not only get to help the OP, but also help another person who incorrectly thinks that solution works.

I may be a sarcastic twit, but I certainly wouldn't get all bent out of shape because someone posted a wrong answer. Just correct them and move on ;)

Originally posted by Sam Hobbs

You seem to think I am suggesting that something more be done than "Just correct them and move on". I did not intend to imply that anything more should be done but I posted this thread in case someone does have a good suggestion for something more to do.

Yep, that's what I was thinking. It falls into the human nature category, which will never be resolved.

Such as:

1. Indicating the original question was answered (closing the thread)
2. Using proper engrish (heh english)
3. Posting a incorrect answer.
4. ThreadJacking (my personal favorite)

Originally posted by Sam Hobbs
A bad answer is one that:

Does not work
Says to do something that is unnecesary, especially if it can cause errors
Suggests a solution as if it is the only solution yet Microsoft does not use it and there is a solution provided by Microsoft
Is not object-oriented when there is an object-oriented solution
Does not use MFC in a MFC application when there is an easier solution that uses MFC

Well...more or less I would agree with this list, although of course there are several items which are more personal opinions like the fourth etc. Nevertheless, the second item of course does not qualify such a post as a bad answer in my eyes. I do not care much whether a solution is mentioned by Microsoft or shown as the preferred way by Microsoft.

I said it several times before...there are many ways leading to Rome. As long as one is fully aware of the concepts and what is happening behind the curtains, one can provide a different answer than e.g. Microsoft without having provided a bad answer.

Originally posted by Sam Hobbs
Yes it is wrong for a programmer to tell another programmer that something must be done in a certain way. There have been many discussions of posts that suggest use of a certain way of doing things as if it is the only correct solution yet it is not the solution the experts use.
Well...I agree that it is wrong to tell anybody that the solution given is the only one. However, in this context I also would have to ask: 'What is an expert?'. It is basically a question which cannot be answered in an objective way. Everybody would say of himself/herself that he/she is an expert. Of course, one would consider e.g. the manufacturer of the library, compiler etc. as the expert but that is not reliable in my eyes. As an example I would ask whether you think the programmer at Microsoft who developed the MFC are experts regarding object-oriented technology. Certainly no. So, can I rely on their 'expert' advice? Well...one could say yes, I would say no - at least not blindly.

What I am basically trying to say is, that if you are a programmer you should be open-minded and not relying on one person telling you how it should be implying that this is the only way.

Originally posted by Mick_2002
1. Indicating the original question was answered (closing the thread)

Well...the board does not let members close any threads. However, I do not think that this would be an appropriate solution. As soon as the thread is closed, one cannot post anything to it any longer thus it could be closed with a wrong answer...

Originally posted by Mick_2002
2. Using proper engrish (heh english)

In the way the poster can...there are many members whose native language is not English and you cannot expect them to use grammatically correct and nice-worded English.

Originally posted by Mick_2002
4. ThreadJacking (my personal favorite)
Well...what is thread jacking?

Originally posted by Andreas Masur
Well...the board does not let members close any threads. However, I do not think that this would be an appropriate solution. As soon as the thread is closed, one cannot post anything to it any longer thus it could be closed with a wrong answer...

I meant, closing as in, hey the problem is solved thanks for the answer, and BTW this is the answer that worked.

In the way the poster can...there are many members whose native language is not English and you cannot expect them to use grammatically correct and nice-worded English.

Yes I know, this is why I said human nature, you cannot correct these things, that's the main point I am making.

Well...what is thread jacking?

Hmm in one word: XeOn ;) just responses going off in 12 different directions ;) And yes I am guilty of that myself, but hey gotta have a little fun right ;)

I'll chime in now with a short comment. I'll provide a longer one later today.

This is a discussion forum. Discussion is good :D.

I agree -- "there are many roads to Rome". Which is best is determined by the specific situtation.

I believe it is perfectly acceptable to raise issues that can be caused by implementing a suggested solution. I strongly believe this can be done without using a phrase like "You are wrong". It can also be done without personally attacking the person who did the "bad post".

As long as the suggestions are constructive, and as long as they don't personally attack another member, then they are most likely not out of line.

On a side note, it is because there can be other suggestions and multiple solutions that it makes sense to not "close" threads. Many people reference old threads for solutions. The more information in them the better -- hopefully -- they will understand the solution(s).

Brad

Originally posted by Andreas Masur
Well...let me ask you one question...is this thread about bad answers in general or about answers having 'PreTranslateMessage()' as the solution? Note that criticisms are more likely than positive comments. The fact that the only two examples I am currently aware of happen to be about PreTranslateMessage seems to be the worst that can be said about my replies in those threads. Since I know it is unlikely someone will say anything about it being good and since this comment is the worst that anyone has to say then the implication is that I dealt with at least these two examples in an acceptable manner.

Perhaps there would be less to complain about if there were less complaining. Don't ask me what that means, though; it just sounds logical.

Originally posted by Sam Hobbs
It seems that there are periods in this forum when there are a greater number of bad answers and I think we are in one of those periods. I often post a message when I see an answer that is clearly not good. If anyone has any suggestions for something else to do then it is probably worthwhile to suggest something.

See for example in the thread Preventing the WM_CLOSE msg (http://www.dev-archive.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=784523). In there the answer is provided to override PreTranslateMessage to process the WM_CLOSE message. Is it reasonable to post a message saying that that is not a good solution?

Some people are going to complain that this post is not appropriate in this forum. Since it is discussing issues directly relevant to this forum only I think it is reasonable to have it here.

When I notice such posts, I reply and say why their suggestion is invalid. I also may post an alternative correct solution which works, or I say something like "I think" or "Maybe this..." Thats all there is to it :)

The most important thing IMHO is not to be ignorant. One should intervene and correct the situation !