Has CG gone to the crapper?

Are you speaking about the chit chat forum? Who do you don't see? :)

Chit chat is idle a bit but I think other forums are fine... people are a little busy with work and festivals these days...

I see my Gurus here, happy and posting .. :)

Don't take it otherwise, but you are never surrounded by the same people all the time.. :)

... also, sarcasm is not the only way to have conversations.. :) I mean, I shouldn't be telling you that.

People come people go. But here and now a good portion stay. That is not the case.You may be right.. since you have been here longer.. :)No, you shouldn't be telling me about sarcasm :DOkay... :D I won't...

But yeah, the ads do create a little nuisance.. but where do they don't.. no-ad DVDs :D I like 'em.. I hate movies with ad banners logo or watching on TV with 5 min breaks every 2 mins..

I can deal with those :D But it was the spamming of the tech forums that got just a bit tiresome.Ok.. now its confusing me.. :D So, you are saying you can deal with the ads but you cannot deal with the reputation system here that is causing spamming?

You mean ONLY the ones that cause problems, I'm sure. ;)

Since I joined CG on Dec 2004, some things has changed here at the forums. Hovewer, I would not say that they went in wrong direction. Sure, some things may be seen as 'disadvantage':
- ads, which I have never had any problem with. Using Opera on both WinXP laptop and Win98 box, my computers do not crash, hang nor slow down. I never blocked them, I even hardly ever use 'Expand Forum' link, with 1024x768 screen size. But shall there come any popup, and I get really angry :mad:
- dead chit - chat forum. Maybe I was not very active at chit-chat, but I miss reading some great discussions and simply funny posts by Mick, Deniz, McRat and Yulia.
- 'lower quality' of tech posts. I am active almost only at C++ forums, and I think that, at least at this area, this is caused by more and more newbies asking basic questions. I do not think that it is a bad thing, but, indeed, they should read books first, ask later. People I consider Gurus stopped answering basic answers over and over again, so we cannot see them posting so often. But still they are ready to help when someone comes with more complicated problem.
- spamming? WHat SpamMing? :P

My conclusion is: things are not going worse. You come back, and maybe they will even get fun.

Cheers,
Me

the rating system (was the only moderator to say f no to that).I know at least 4 mods (including one you interacted with) who disapprove of the system.

Unless of course, your point was connected solely to the usage of the f-word for it?
That may be correct.

General Note: There are at least an equal number of Mods who want it to stay in it's current state, and probably, a number of users too.

My opinion is this is a disgraceful question from someone who clearly has an axe to grind, and who (as a self-admitted non-contributor) is really not in a position to criticize.

Mike

Mabye we should burn some books while we are at it.

I use to post here I stopped after awhile, mostly because of the ads and the rating system (was the only moderator to say f no to that).
Something wrong with the ads? They don't read your posts...(?). And you got something agains the rating system as well? What's wrong with it? (And, no, please don't say that we 'mods' don't like it.)

I look around and I don't see people here. What is up with that?That's just a strange question. Or, a strange place to ask that question. But it you're right then the anwer is proabably because no one gets help around here, so they choose other sites...

- petter

Mabye we should burn some books while we are at it.
Well, as long as we are engaged in heavy sarcasm, I just realized that you're totally correct, and that it would be best for you to leave before the vortex drags you down the crapper too.

Mike

But yeah, the ads do create a little nuisance..

You're telling me... Even my avatar has taken on little IBM ads... :eek:

With a 9:4 vote, I think that kind of speaks for itself...

From Exterminator:
//Xeon we will wait till 2012 for you to complete 8K posts!
At this rate I'm going(no post increase in the past 2 years...maybe 1 or 2), it's gonna take all of Eternity. :rolleyes:
Unless Brad lifts off the "no post count increase in Chit Chat forum" rule, I'm not gonna be able to make it. Darn! :mad:

From Tom:
I worry more about whether Mick has gone to the crapper (recently) than CG. It might improve his outlook on life.
Squirrelman/king/lord/god/fanboy/fangirl/emperor/overlord/judge/duke/knight/protector/earl, MiCk has always been part of us dev-archive Royal Crappers. Among them is also Xeon. :thumb:
It'll be abnormal ONLY if MiCk is not a crapper!

Good day,
Xeon.

You're telling me... Even my avatar has taken on little IBM ads... :eek:OMG! I didn't earlier but I notice it now.. :D :thumb:

...And instead of being redirected/kicked they get a lot of answers. Which in turn generates more not-interesting questions. Which get answered ...

which of course, is because of the reputation thing. people love seing green, especially light green...the more the better...unfortunatelly :(:(

EDIT: and yes, i fully agree that the quality of topics has significantly decreased. i remember great discussions involving Gabriel Fleseriu, Andreas Masur, just to name a few.

Also, it in a way tells that Windows development is shifting to .Net from VC++/MFC etc... I don't bet my life for this though!

Well, let's not jump to conclusions. Some people have left because of the reputation system, some others have left because of the ads. If it weren't for the fact that I found out how to write Firefox plugins, I would probably have left too. However there are still many nice and interesting people around and some new ones have joined.

I agree...and since the Negative Rep has been done away with I think that might have been a problem...I know it was one person whom thought their way was the only way to program and gave negative feed back to all others...I haven't seen them on here in a very long time so maybe they left. I think this might have been a problem with others also.

Ad's are not a problem for me..I just expand the forum..

Some people have left because of the reputation system

Hm.. I hope it is not the reputed persons who have left because of the reputation system. And if it is them that has left, I would consider that move extremely silly and childish. If they were here when there was no reputation system, then why would they care if this system was introduced.

May be the quality to you looks low because you have had your own knowledge standards uplifted! ;)

No, it's not that. It's the same question(s) over and over again, receiving the same answer(s) over and over again for the sake of a few green dots.

Also in the rush for higher rep you'll see multiple identical answers for the same post. While some duplicates are natural ( same post time) the ones posted 30 mins later are not.

The logic, I think, being put is that because of rep system new comers and some others (I don't know if I am in it.. I don't care) have started posting junks... because of that the quality has degraded. And because of those numerous bad quality posts people have started leaving forums... I consider this one as childish and silly too!
The spammers are not the problem. IMHO it is the senior members playing the rep game that cause more damage. If 1 duplicated/already answered question receives an answer from a senior member the OP will be encouraged to do that again. And the senior member will answer it again for the sake of the green dots.

Hm.. I hope it is not the reputed persons who have left because of the reputation system. And if it is them that has left, I would consider that move extremely silly and childish. If they were here when there was no reputation system, then why would they care if this system was introduced.
Well, talk to Mick about it, since he left because of the rep system. Personnally I don't think the reputation system is a problem, but I don't think it's helpful either. It doesn't add much value since the green dots don't mean much to me. If a person has a great answer, it's a great answer, no matter how much green there is. Same for bad answers.

In any case, I don't think that there is a strong correlation between the ads/ratings and people leaving. A few notable people that I remember well that have left before any of these:
- Paul Wendt
- Philip Nicoletti (he comes around once in a while though)
- Sam Hobbs
- galathea

Some have left long after these features:
- Gabriel Fleseriu
- Andreas Masur

So at least for these people (probably something like than 50k posts between them), the forum changes haven't mattered. They have left for reasons unrelated to CG (except probably Sam, but not sure).

May be the quality to you looks low because you have had your own knowledge standards uplifted! ;)

i wish it was that, but unfortunatelly is not. take a look around. you'll see.

Well look at their last post date.

Well look at their last post date.
Okay. I see what you mean.

Philip Nicoletti (he comes around once in a while though)

I just saw him a second ago !

I miss galathea and rxbagain. galathea's posts were always
an education. But I see JohnCZ is still cranking!!!
Paul ? Paul ?

I used to whine about the ads whenever I didn't start up
the proxomitron. I don't even notice them right now. Seems
the only strategy advertisers use to make people notice
their ads is to make them more intrusive. Sorry, not
interested in DB2.
I got tired of the silly question titles "Doubt about..."
and "HELP" and the people who ask the questions can't even
explain what help they need and most of the responses to
the question are simply asking for more info ! Makes going
through the forums tedious and "Crappy"
Well, actually, it only became crappy after Mick left. He
put the sunshine in CG!

everything has it's ups and downs...what goes up must comes down...yet, it's not impossible it may shoot rocket high once again...yeah, with suitable fuel...

what fuels CG today?...

//the comunity...

From Ree:
what fuels CG today?
I thought it's Xeon? I mean, both the human and the processor. Without Xeon, where would dev-archive be? Probably still running on 66Hz Pentium I processors on 1 single server with Windows 1.0 and 64KB of EDO-RAM. :thumbd:

Darn!
Xeon.

And yes Mick, seems like Code Guru has gone to the crapper.

From Ovidi Kuku(the bird):
Hi Mick, you are alive? Many people here (downhill or uphill) thought you are dead since about one year.
He's semi-dead, actually. Comes to life and post once in a while, but when his inner clockwork winds down and loses strength, he goes to sleep until some witch doctor dig him up and wind up his clockwork again and let him post in dev-archive.

News:
* a post, yours or not, cannot be rated twice;
* a post, yours or not, if is from Chit Chat forum cannot be rated at all.
Let's all boycott dev-archive and march on to CodeProject! Our new future is there!
(CodeProject is even regularly giving free cool t-shirts and mugs away because they cherish their members!)

Good day,
Xeon.

Well, talk to Mick about it, since he left because of the rep system.
Really?
Remember when Mick "retired" he had one of the best reputation place and a signature including something like "please, please, don't forget to rate my post!" .
Come on, let's be honest!

I was there but sincerely, I don't like it!

I agree, Codeproject is not that good when it comes to forum.

[Seriously, can you even understand what that old fogey is saying half the time? He talks in rocket-science + hieroglyphics riddles + arcane Machine Language + Who-Knows-What-Language-and-speech all the time!
All graveyards are full of non-replaceable people.

http://www.dev-archive.com/forum/showthread.php?t=402342

I am frankly outraged. The response I have seen here to Mick by a bunch of hacks is disgusting. Mick is one of the most competant prgorammers macking an appearance here on code guru. [ ... ] As soon as Mick left and Galthaea , this sight lost all interest for me.
Back to the twelve pack for me.

Yves: Ok, let's calm down on personal attacks please

Mick is one of the most competant prgorammers macking an appearance here on code guru.

I think Mick is saying that he misses CG, please make these changes, so he can rejoin. Look he posted here right?

Sorry CP is just not as free and easy spirited as CG.

Nobody is questioning Micks programming ability.

I apologize Yves. As you kow you are one of the people I truly respec. I jus had a hard time listening to mick take this crap.

Well, talk to Mick about it, since he left because of the rep system.
Really? Interesting to know, since Mick was in top three of most reputed people when he "retired". ;)
Personnally I don't think the reputation system is a problem, but I don't think it's helpful either. It doesn't add much value since the green dots don't mean much to me. If a person has a great answer, it's a great answer, no matter how much green there is. Same for bad answers.
Nothing is perfect. Reputation system is one of the "gadgets" forums use to attract people. ;)

Marius, that's hardly the point. I have almost 3K rep points
Pretty good, my friend. ;)
and I hate each and every single one of them.
Come on, Mother Teresa, hate is a sin. :D
But at some point I was enthusiastic about them too ( giving and receiving). IMHO the rep system is the worst thing that happened to CG in the past 3 years.
Generally speaking.
Since first homo erectus said "Aha...", 66% of his successors inherit the gene of take_all_advantages_you_can_from_one_system_then_throw_with_dirt_in_it.
Again, just generally speaking.

Marius, that's hardly the point. I have almost 3K rep points and I hate each and every single one of them. But at some point I was enthusiastic about them too ( giving and receiving). IMHO the rep system is the worst thing that happened to CG in the past 3 years.Actually, I understand and to an extent agree with that. Though, I would say the worst thing that has happened to CG is the Flash Advertisements.

The problem I see with the reputation system is that it creates competition in the form of absolute comparison (like one possible in a mathematics examination) on a point-to-point basis possible. This would be OK save for the fact that it does not ensure that all good answers are equally rewarded.

In principle, I am pro-competition, but I dislike one performed on unfair grounds.

For instance - why should a member with more posts give more points? Why should a member who has made his Id in the year 1999 give 7 points with 10 posts in hand, but another that registered last month with a 100 posts give 1 point only? Neither the technical quality of the post being rated nor that of the member who is rating is a function of the years spent with CG. Ditto for posts at CG. Right?

I also do think that the reputation system makes answering questions lucrative to an extent - at least for new comers and in that sense it may play a positive role. On the other hand, this incentive is also applicable to members who post for the heck of the points and this incentive ends up serving a non-constructive purpose.

The only advantage of the reputation system I see is the feedback (especially, the comments) as they do really play a completely constructive role - at least for me. In a hypothetical situation, if we were able to successfully do away with the points-system much to my liking, I would still love to keep the comments-feedback intact.

Though, I would say the worst thing that has happened to CG is the Flash Advertisements.
I totally agree with you here.
The problem I see with the reputation system is that it creates competition in the form of absolute comparison (like one possible in a mathematics examination) on a point-to-point basis possible. This would be OK save for the fact that it does not ensure that all good answers are equally rewarded.
Yes and no. You can't see how many rep points a member has, only some thresholds, like +100, +200, +1000, + 3000, etc. It's somehow a "fuzzy" system.

I wasn't here to start the C++ Aha moments thread when the first homo erectus said Aha!
Sorry Abhishek, my friend! I had not any malicious intention.
Anyhow, more and more scientists sustain that first homo erectus didn't say "Aha!.." but "Uhu!..". :D ;)

Another thing that can be done is not let the same post get rated by 2 different people.
Which can be good, reasonable, genuine arguments for that?

Which can be good, reasonable, genuine arguments for that?Are you asking me? I am not asking for removing the comments as well.. let them get rated twice or more but no numerical value should get added.. like if two people rated - the person would see two comments that he would have had got and just 1 point added.

You mean, 1 point or points from the first person that rated (as it originally seemed)?Yeah.. but I don't know what it originally was. Everyone having 1 reputation strength and only the first rating for a post count.. but the comments should be kept..

Is that something that you like? Then may be I will put this up in the Feedback forum for Brad to take a look at...

Everyone having 1 reputation strength and only the first rating for a post count.. but the comments should be kept..

Is that something that you like? I don't see it solve any problem caused by the existence of points and I don't see the proposal mitigate them either.

What will happen is that good posts and average posts will all carry the same number of points. We may end up creating new problems without addressing the root cause.

Deleted off-topic post...
Can anyone of you help me get this thread on topic.. by splitting or whatever.. please.. it is spoiling the interest...
http://www.dev-archive.com/forum/showthread.php?t=402792

[...]Well, you posted something completely off-topic in here to complain about people doing the same to your thread. Right?

Next time, simply PM a Moderator or use the "Report Post" feature.

I don't see anything constructive happening here though.. all are biased towards their own viewpoints (may be me as well). It is better that the moderators and the admins decide upon what to keep and what not to keep as far as concerns regarding reps or ads are concerned.Deleted off-topic post...
Well, you posted something completely off-topic in here to complain about people doing the same to your thread. Right?

Next time, simply PM a Moderator or use the "Report Post" feature.Sorry Sid, but don't you think it is tough to be on-topic in chit chat. ;) In a way it is related to the concern of the thread as you say.. :) So, not completely off-topic.. :D

IM-very-very-HO, I would think the dots AND the no. of posts ( note the AND ) sufficiently good indicator of the value / reliability of the post. Agree, for newly joined experts this may not be a good indicator, but, overtime, it certainly can be.

It is just a way of weighing a particular post. If it were a single line of comment from a veteran and with good rep points, perhaps there is some info in there that is to be considered and I would ask for more info, where as , if it is the same one liner from a newbie chances are , I will look further and look at what other posts have to say.

It is similar to any reviews we see onsite on products we buy e.g. a music CD. My tendency would be to read through all the comments / reviews posted for a particular album and come up with a judgment myself with all the info I have. I would look at what the reviewers have posted elsewhere and things like that.

To me, rep points is a nice way to say a post is good and gives info in , in my opinion, the direction of doing things the right way or the better way. That is easier to do with rep points than post a reply saying "Oh well, what you say sounds like the right approach". I guess, in this respect, these rep points ARE in fact to prevent such "good answer" spam.

For that matter, why is any info at all required there about the poster ( Join date, Location, member status like Power poster blah blah ) ? What does that mean. Hey !! You better listen to me , cos I am a power poster ?? Why not have something like , say years in software industry ? Maybe that holds much more relevance, maybe not.

As for people having "rate me in their signature" or whatever , I don't care. I don't get swayed by these. It is their signature and they are entitled to put anything there. If someone feels good getting a pat on the back , so be it. What is wrong with that ? It is like anything else, some one posting their photo, some one posting a link to their blog/website. It is ultimately to feel good. If I don't like that, I ignore them. That is all.Very good points Kirants! Kudos!

Moreover, such people asking to kill the rep system (ignore my previous agreement about killing the hulk :D) - why show even their usernames? Lets all have Guest logins and post stuff.. no info about anything... except for threads and posts... What do they have to say about it?

Lets talk stats now - how many 1000+ rep members are spammers? This is a serious question and I would love an answer... regarding quoting names I am completely fine with it (may be others may be not)

IM-very-very-HO, I would think the dots AND the no. of posts ( note the AND ) sufficiently good indicator of the value / reliability of the post. Agree, for newly joined experts this may not be a good indicator, but, overtime, it certainly can be.
This is sometimes true...I have helped approx 10 NooB's here in the last 10 days and none of them have rated the post...not even the one thread that had 59 post's to fix/retrain for the problem, have rated the posts, but this thread was rated by a moderator as he saw the value of the post.

Out of all the ratings shown on my CP the person that has the lowest number of post is at 239 posts, so if it weren't for the members that understand the value of the post, I would have no ratings in the CP. Not that I care but it does mean something to others as suggested by Kiran.

If there's any "young hacks" trying to humiliate MiCk or something, we can ban him.
We, who? ;)

Im software student about two years i procrastinatig here and i answered many questions i remember people like Darwen which I learned many things from him but nowadays CG doesnt have tha quality for learning and gurus just answering some repetitive and uncreative questions...

and i dont have any comment on chit-chat because i get banned because of my commnts :rolleyes: :D

I really like to see here more professinal for example guru share their projects for peole like me ,technical forums are not constructive totally boring and uneducative (sp? :D )

for example there is no guru to drop his projects here and others learn and debate or edit it and improve not just answering some lame & easy questions ;)

My conclusion is: things are not going worse. You come back, and maybe they will even get fun.

Cheers,
Me


Maybe, you give me hope :D going through the replies :D :D kinda funny

Im software student about two years i procrastinatig here and i answered many questions

Saboor Saboor is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006, Posts: 0

Did you post micro-code ? :D

which of course, is because of the reputation thing. people love seing green,

especially light green...the more the better...unfortunatelly :(:(

EDIT: and yes, i fully agree that the quality of topics has significantly decreased. i

remember great discussions involving Gabriel Fleseriu, Andreas Masur, just to name a

few.

Hush hush
keep it down now
voices carry

May be the quality to you looks low because you have had your own

knowledge standards uplifted! ;)

Time to share more to us! :)

//Quality is a relative term.. not relative to time only but relation to individuals

The true is I don't know :D General downtick as I left, I haven't come here often at all.

Like I said...A troll :D But, I do have to say that Brad didn't let the moderators moderate

and he never listened to what anyone said. Period. Nothing, what was the point?

Well, let's not jump to conclusions.


Even thoughts. But, come one now, in our hayday? *lol* yves...don't be sad :D

If they were here when there was no reputation system, then why would they

care if this system was introduced.

Kirants, given that I was a person that heavily 'rated' you early on , did you not see the

rush to post the same thing over and over in the same thread? Are we not technical here? Why

do I have to go thru twenty fraeking posts about the same thing when reading a thread? come

on, you see this?

My another question is why don't people directly confront the bad posts right in where they

are in the threads?

Ya, well some moderators *cough, cough* tried that and got called out for it.

I
I guess for me thinks were just not a fun once Xeon, Mick and Galatheae left. I didn't know

Andreas had left as well. I think that there is no question that the quality of the

discussions has degraded. There are some exceptions in the non-visual C++ forum.
v
Ya, well we miss you, and your little dog too!!!

Hi Mick, you are alive? Many people here (downhill or uphill) thought you

are dead since about one year. ;)


I heard that one myself, ovidiucucu. Hell, I even thought I was dead 'til I found out it was

just that I was in Nebraska. --The Unforgiven.

From Ovidi Kuku(the bird):
Let's all boycott dev-archive and march on to CodeProject! Our new future is

there!
(CodeProject is even regularly giving free cool t-shirts and mugs away because they cherish

their members!)

Good day,
Xeon.

Sorry, fark codeproject, bunch of non-coders :D Stay here, lets fix this thing.

Really?
Remember when Mick "retired" he had one of the best reputation place and a signature

including something like "please, please, don't forget to rate my post!" .
Come on, let's be honest!

*lol* you are confusing me with someone else. I never had the 'please please rate me sig'.

BTW, weren't you part of the romanian group along with CIlU that we busted for cross-rating?

Thought so? Should I write a tell all about that? Shh...it's a mod secret.

I apologize Yves. As you kow you are one of the people I truly respec. I

jus had a hard time listening to mick take this crap.

*lol* what did I miss? *lol* come now, this is heavy sarcasm here, why are you guys farking

with me? Souldog definding me *lol*

Hush hush
keep it down now
voices carry

;) i really DO hope so.
anyway, i really miss those days, but who knows, maybe they'll come back again.

It looks like it is more of encapsulation at moderator levels.. that I guess we commoners don't have a clue... No meaningful discussion can happen here with us coz of that... It's better you guys discuss amongst yourselves... Don't know how open things can be but without that its meaningless debating with us... we don't have a say coz we don't have a clue

The point is more than just reps and ads!

Even thoughts. But, come one now, in our hayday? *lol* yves...don't be sad

Well, the fact that we didn't agree on some issues doesn't mean I hated you :D

About the rep system, I have to say that my opinion has changed and that in the beginning I thought it was a nice gadget. Probably a bit naive, because I had never used a forum with rep points before. Now I don't see any use in it anymore. I still don't think it's bad or that it degrades the quality of CG, it's just not useful.

Ups: sorry for posting after it had been closed.

[ Moderator note: Thread reopened, but rest assured that we'll moderate any name-calling ]

@Mick (http://www.dev-archive.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1483902&postcount=2)

EDIT: for some reason, the link above no longer exists or was deleted.

this is what it contained:

Originally Posted by Alin
you shouldn't be picking at people's nationality though - it's weak. pick at them instead if you need to. yeah, i'm romanian too. i didn't say nothing about americans or any other nationality for that matter. don't generalize, keep it personal.

Was that a link or from you Alin?

Was that a link or from you Alin?
yeah, it was a link to one of my post as a reply to one of yours. since i couldn't reply in this thread, i replied to one of the other posts of yours, but they are now deleted it seems, thus making my link invalid.

I want to say also, if you are offended, stop reading...go away...

Otherwise, lets talk.
i didn't say i was offened, i said that you should keep it personal. oh, don't you worry, i'm not afraid to talk.

Ok, what was it about? roma?
no, it was about you being, uncalled for, a chauvinist.

Well, ****, unless it had to do with me calling gal a femnazi..then hell I missed that one.
whatever, you know what i'm talking about. in case you've already forgotten here ( http://www.dev-archive.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1483849&postcount=111) it is.

Holy pOOp batman!!! Guess I'll have to read this thread *lol*

/Another successful troll by the mickster :D :D :D

I knew you loved CG. Otherwise you wouldn't repost so much. Welcome back Mick!

no, it was about you being, uncalled for, a chauvinist.
He outs cilu and that makes him a chauvinist? What's not a chauvinist? Ankle-grabber?

That and I'm willing to back what he said. Waaaaaaay back in the day when the rating system was introduced, ovi just couldn't help but give me a negative rating for a post I made that had nothing to do with coding (in the chit-chat section.) He thought he was safe because the names of those that rate were not shown, but after Brad revealed it, it was rather obvious. Ovi, I never forgot that, buddy :wave: .

I'd guess that airiing the mods 'dirty laundry' did him in.

Hope he didn't give ammo for a lawsuit :(

Ya, that's pretty much it. The powers that be aren't fond of having others know of the poo that goes on behind closed doors.Don't get me wrong.. but there are things that need to be decided behind closed doors.. If one agrees or not agrees - once the decision is not made until then you can try - if your opinion gets rejected - you shouldn't be coming in out and start blaming everyone for not listening. Opinions may vary - but the point is what does it give to anyone by just throwing things in the open? You don't expect a decision to be made in the chit chat do you? If it has to change it has to change with the proper process, otherwise (all this blamegame) its useless!!!

I feel sorry about it. A bunch of matured people talking against each other for some system on a forum. The ads or the rep system shouldn't be that important to spoil relationships. I really feel very sorry about it.

I already said that now it was a matter of more than just reps and ads and that is what it came out to be.

One says you are telling a lie and the other says no you are telling the lie. Now what are we supposed to do - judge which one is lieing? Silly .. very silly.

Just curious, but will I get banned for admitting that ...I didn't ban Mick, but let me just make it clear that Mick got banned for spamming, and not because of him airing dirty laundry about anybody.

Rules are rules, and if any member spams the forums or uses profanity, he should go that way.

Other than that, Mick isn't banned for good, so... :)

He outs cilu and that makes him a chauvinist? What's not a chauvinist? Ankle-grabber?
That and I'm willing to back what he said.
i did not make him chauvinist for what he said about the rating system, but for what he said about romanians. but then again, maybe your not familiar with the term and that'n no shame - a lot aren't. that behavior is uncalled for and weak, as i have already said.

about backing him up: what are you talikng about, becasuse your confusing me? if you back him up for his trash against other nations, they you're no better. if you're talking about the rating system, i already said i agree with his point of view and you should've known that by reading my other posts, before jumping into the thread.

It is a stupid argument happening over here. It does not make sense...

I think there's a lot of hang-over that people need to get over with.

YSG - Let me ask you - if you are and were so worried about the negative rating - did you report to Brad about it? If you have a NO as an answer - don't drag it more!

And what for do I need to read the whole thread - I have following it very closely and you will find that I would be one of the people posting in this thread actively. Let's see what you have to say about what I said that you quoted in your last post.

cilu and ovidiu: please step up and make a statement. is it true or not? get it over with.

This discussion is going nowhere, do you realy believe if someone says something like that ? Even if someone has to accuse, does it matter, Don't people get help from Cilu & Ovidiu ? Why provoke ?

The best thing to do would be either drop the subject or ignore it.

No offence to anyone here, but guys this is not going to help anything, what good are you expecting out of this discussion ?