What do you actually need to get a job as a programmer?
A bit about myself: When I first started school, I had narrowed my choices down to either computers or music, and eventually decided that music was what I really wanted to do. Needless to say, now that I have my degree in music (minor in business), I've come to the conclusion that while I love music and never intend to stop playing, it's not what I really want to "do" with my life. On the other hand, I still enjoy the little bit of programming that I do, and I think I would really love doing it as a full-time job. I don't have much experience in any language, only what I've taught myself (there's never been any "external" motivation to learn other than for my enjoyment), but I have no problem teaching myself whatever I need to learn.
That being said, the programming job market has always been very confusing to me - at least the little that I've seen of it. I know people who have gotten programming jobs straight out of school (non-CS degrees) who I know had never written a program in their lives up to that point. On the other side of the spectrum, a quick perusal of job postings makes it sound as if you must have any number of CS-related degrees along with X years of experience even to get an entry-level job.
I guess what I'm really trying to find out is if it's absolutely necessary to go back to school for another 2-3 years to get a second degree, and then just hope that I can get hired somewhere. I do have a job right now (non-IT) that pays okay and that I don't dislike necessarily, but I don't really "get" anything out of it other than a paycheck. I would much rather do something that I enjoy, even if it pays a little less to begin with, and if I can do it without going back to school full-time, that's even better.
Any advice you can give would be appreciated!
[1874 byte] By [
kefka95] at [2007-11-20 8:27:59]
# 1 Re: What do you actually need to get a job as a programmer?
A great deal depends on your location (which I could have determined if you had bothered to enter it in your profile :rolleyes: )..
The following applies to USA:
There are a good number of companies that absolutely require degrees, and they are not willing to consider experience (I run into this occasionally, they seem to have a problem understanding that a 30 year old CS degree would be fairly useless by now).
There are companies that offer "Internships" for people who are just starting out, but you are probably making much better money than these would pay.
The best (general) suggestion is to find a job that offers tuition re-imbursement and will qualify for your CS program.
# 2 Re: What do you actually need to get a job as a programmer?
A great deal depends on your location (which I could have determined if you had bothered to enter it in your profile :rolleyes: )..
Haha, thanks for the heads up, my profile has been updated accordingly :thumb:
There are companies that offer "Internships" for people who are just starting out, but you are probably making much better money than these would pay.
I would actually be fine with just this. I'm still living at home, and even if I had to get my own place I have enough money saved up that I wouldn't exactly starve (...right away anyway :rolleyes: ). However, I'm under the impression that you typically have to be enrolled in some sort of full-time CS program to get these internships, and likely have to finish your degree before being offered a "real" job.
The best (general) suggestion is to find a job that offers tuition re-imbursement and will qualify for your CS program.
My company actually does this, though I have yet to test the waters to see if a full-fledged CS program would relate to "a position I could reasonably aspire to within the company". My main concern is if it takes 2-3 years of full-time school to get a second degree, how long is it going to take while trying to work a full-time job at the same time. I'm not exactly old now, but I'm eager to get started doing what I actually want to be doing with my life :D
Thanks for the tips!
# 3 Re: What do you actually need to get a job as a programmer?
Or, just buy a book, load the compiler, and take a crack at programming. C# would be a good first choice. Visiual Basic is easy to learn.
# 4 Re: What do you actually need to get a job as a programmer?
Or, just buy a book, load the compiler, and take a crack at programming. C# would be a good first choice. Visiual Basic is easy to learn.
While that is the best way to learn, I am not sure how successful that would be in today's job market.
I can just imagine applying for an Interview..being asks my experience and replying "Well, I read the xxx book, and did all of the samples"... :eek:
# 5 Re: What do you actually need to get a job as a programmer?
Just to get an idea of what's happened over the years.
If you can program, the language isn't a problem usually.
# 6 Re: What do you actually need to get a job as a programmer?
In Singapore, there are Mechanical, Civil and Electronics engineering graduates doing programmers' job. A few years back, Computer Science and Computer Engineering Graduates are complaining the non-computer trained guys are taking over their jobs. :D . Now everyone is complaining the cheap Indian and Chinese nationals are taking away our jobs. :D
I am not computer trained either. To get a programming job, I self taught myself C++ and do up a portfolio of applications to show my competency. Ironically, those companies who asked to see my portfolio, never hired me. Nowadays, I don't need them anymore, because I have a few years of experience now.
# 7 Re: What do you actually need to get a job as a programmer?
From what I have been told it goes either way. As mentioned before some go just on experience and others just on a degree. What has been suggested to me most often was to get the degree, and then gain your experience via internships or what have you. People outside of this site have suggested I keep a portfolio, or at the least have a copy of my personal library loaded onto a flashdrive or whatnot to show your interviewer if they ask to see examples of your work.
M.
# 8 Re: What do you actually need to get a job as a programmer?
Of course, if you have no work experience, then a degree or certification is probably going to make the most difference.
Earn a degree from a GOOD school, and it will never hurt you.
# 9 Re: What do you actually need to get a job as a programmer?
To the threadstarter, choose something which is based on your passion or interest. When you do something which you like, it is not work, it is fun and you are always full of energy. Bill Gates used to work 18 hours 7 days every week for his Microsoft, to him it is not work, it is his passion, that is why he could do and have the energy to do it.
You either do for money or interest. It is best if you can have both worlds. You rather work to live or live to work?
# 10 Re: What do you actually need to get a job as a programmer?
... Bill Gates used to work 18 hours 7 days every week for his Microsoft
until his first break:
getting the choice
bulk sale of DOS, or $1 per unit
bill chose $1/per
IBM ordered 300,000 by next month
(they wanted to have sucked up their DOS disk costs if he failed)
second break:
working 18 hours a day 7 days a week to produce 300,000 floppy disks to deliver.
Bottom line: Do your best.
# 11 Re: What do you actually need to get a job as a programmer?
Since you already have a university degree, you should be able to enroll in a master degree. A few friends of mine did a master in computer science conversion (not exactly sure anymore of how it was called) but that was in the UK. They came from: Bsc Maths, Bsc Physics, Bsc Biology etc. There was pretty much no requirement for previous experience, just willingness to work and learn a lot in a short time. They pretty much all got hired straight away and that was during the "hard years" (2001-2002). So I imagine that employers didn't take a bad view on this stuff.
However you can go a step further. Depending on the type of music studies you've done (i.e. sound engineering classes e.g.) you could probably find a job as computer scientist for some music / electronics company. A friend of mine studied physics and had a high interest in sound engineering and got hired as programmer for a small DSP maker.
Trying to get a software job straight without any additional qualification is probably really hard unless you have some connections that could help you out. So I would try and see to at least get a 1 year post-uni conversion course. You probably don't need to start a fresh course over 3-4 years.
Yves M at 2007-11-9 13:12:00 >
